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Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

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Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby nothing2lose » Thu May 20, 2010 3:40 pm

If so, I would love to hear from you!

N2L
LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE A THIN PERSON....AND EVENTUALLY YOUR BODY WILL MATCH YOUR LIFESTYLE!

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HW - September 2008 - 121.3kg :( :(
SW - 16 May 2010 - 110.4 kg :(
New SW - 6 January 2011 - 108 kg :(
First GW 99kg :) My aim is to reach this goal by April 15, 2011
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby JacquiB » Mon May 24, 2010 2:48 pm

I have done this diet before. I lost a few kilos but got bored as is based heavily around fish which doesnt work for me. I prefer the lo gi diet - but i guess it is up to personal preference - have you started it yet? :)
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby nothing2lose » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:37 pm

Hi Jacqui

Yes, I have been following the principles for about 2-3 weeks now. Not doing the actual menus as I work long hours and it is too hard to prepare everything as required. That, and I dont like being told what to eat and when!! :lol:

I did the low-GI last year. Cant remember why I gave up...Christmas I think!! How are you finding it?

N2l
LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE A THIN PERSON....AND EVENTUALLY YOUR BODY WILL MATCH YOUR LIFESTYLE!

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HW - September 2008 - 121.3kg :( :(
SW - 16 May 2010 - 110.4 kg :(
New SW - 6 January 2011 - 108 kg :(
First GW 99kg :) My aim is to reach this goal by April 15, 2011
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby JacquiB » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi! Just realised i didnt reply to this!
I quite like lo gi - it works for me because I really like vegetables and it encourages lots of those so the eating program doesnt feel unreasonable when I like the main foods if that makes sense!
Are you still on CSIRO?
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby stevo1 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:47 pm

N2L,

The CSIRO Diet does have some flaws though that need to be taken into consideration before following it. Firstly, the fact that it only recommends three meals a day is an issue. Most nutrition experts recommend eating small meals more frequently because of the positive effect it has on the metabolism. For example, 5 or 6 small meals a day as opposed to three.

Admittedly, most people don’t feel they could fit in that many whole-food meals so they will often use meal replacements, like shakes or bars as an option for their mid-morning or mid-afternoon meals.

Another obvious concern of the diet is the endorsement by powerful organisations. For example, Meat & Livestock Australia and Dairy Australia are two organisations that provided funding for the research that was conducted by the CSIRO. Whenever powerful organisations provide the funding for research, vested interested often prevail.

Without exception, the CSIRO Diet has a high recommendation of meat and dairy foods throughout the diet. This doesn’t necessarily mean it is wrong, it simply means you need to put a question mark next to any statements relating to these foods. Plus, what if people have dairy intolerances that are so common in Australia today? No accommodations are made for these individuals.

The fact that the CSIRO Diet doesn’t recommend any supplements at all is a concern to many nutrition experts. Our bodies have a requirement for at least 20+ minerals, 13 vitamins, 8 essentials amino acids and 2 essential fatty acids every day (that we are aware of at the moment).

If we don’t supply these to our body it doesn’t function as well as it should. The average Australian diet contains many processed, refined, packaged and often early picked foods. Plus, the soils in Australia are considered to be ‘ancient’ soils, which means they are often depleted of many minerals required by the body.

Furthermore, chemical fertilisers are often used to ensure maximum growth of plants but unfortunately they don’t contain all the minerals the body requires. Perhaps the occlusion of supplements from the diet was because no supplement company provided any funding for the research!

Overall, compared to the average person’s diet it is a vast improvement however, the various flaws it contains need to be addressed.

I hope this info helps.

Cheers,

Steve.
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby court » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:09 am

Perhaps the occlusion of supplements from the diet was because no supplement company provided any funding for the research!


when i was on Jenny Craig they insisted that you take THEIR supplement every week which was a sleeve of 7 tablets in Jenny Craig packaging... I think it was an extra $4 or $5 on top of the food a week...turned out it was just a Blacmores Multi! Sorry just reminded me... Stevo brings up some good points here N2L... I mean I love 6 small balanced meals a day and can't imagine my eating any other way now - but it is a very personal thing! You need to find what works for you

Our bodies have a requirement for at least 20+ minerals, 13 vitamins, 8 essentials amino acids and 2 essential fatty acids every day (that we are aware of at the moment).


I would love to learn more about this? I wonder what I am lacking... I just started taking a magnesium supplement because not only did i have muscles that required repairing but I was suffering from twitches (turns out it was caused by stimulants like too much coffee and diet coke :lol: :roll: )
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby stevo1 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:30 pm

I agree Court. It's hard to know what we're deficient in these days and with all the deceptive marketing being done not just by food promoters but also by supplement companies as well, it's hard to know what to believe. Especially when they start flashing around glossy brochures with impressive-looking pseudo-scientific research!

I've even come across products from some multi-level companies that claim their product is a panacea for just about every disease under the sun! Of course, that's not to say that the product doesn't work to some extent but some of the marketing they do is a bit over-the-top and they don't have any decent scientific research with humans to back it up- it is all anecdotal or research that has been done on rats!

Here's what I suggest taking every day:

1. A good quality multi-vitamin/ mineral supplement
2. Omega-3 supplements (fish oil is probably best)
3. A good antioxidant

Of course there are other supplements that may be beneficial if you have a certain physical ailment or goal you want to achieve, i.e. glucosamine or turmeric for arthritis or a protein powder or thermogenic for body composition change.

I have worked in the supplement industry for over 10 years now so I do have a pretty good idea of some of the dodgy marketing stuff that goes on, especially when it comes to bodybuilding supplements. For example, how can you honestly believe that a supplement is going to help you pack on 10 kilos of pure muscle when the guys promoting it have been loading up with anabolic steroids for the last 15-20 years! That is one of the reasons I got out of it.

Furthermore, a popular calcium supplement on the market (probably the most well-known) contains calcium carbonate as the main source of calcium. What is calcium carbonate you ask? CHALK!!! How much of that do you think you absorb? Iron supplements that contain iron oxide (RUST)- completely worthless! I could go on and on.. unfortunately.

The nutritional supplement industry does have an important role to play in our overall health but it must first start with good ethics and good science!!! Acai berry and weight loss- what a joke!!!

Okay, I'm off the soap box for another evening. I wish everyone the best of success with achieving their goals. I'm off to enjoy a nice glass of red with my folks tonight!

Cheers,

Steve...
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby EvilWombatQueen » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:56 am

Hi Steve,

I absolutely love your advice, but I just want to correct you on something: the body does absorb calcium carbonate at about the same efficiency as the calcium from milk. Yes, calcium carbonate is essentially limestone or chalk but it can still be absorbed by the body. It's common in supplements because it's much cheaper than calcium citrate. The main difference between the two is that calcium carbonate requires lower pH in the stomach, which is why it should always be taken with food. Calcium citrate can be taken without food. Calcium carbonate is 40% elemental calcium compared to 21% in calcium citrate. However, calcium citrate is easier to digest, contributes less to kidney stones and is less likely to cause gas or constipation. People with particular medical conditions are better off taking calcium citrate.

As someone who has been told to take calcium carbonate supplements by my GP I wouldn't want others throwing their supplements away without seeking medical advice first!

Totally agree with everything else you said, though. ;-)

cheers,
Ali

Relative bioavailability of calcium-rich dietary sources in the elderly
Calcium Bioavailability of Calcium Carbonate Fortified Soymilk Is Equivalent to Cow’s Milk in Young Women
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby stevo1 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:50 am

Thanks for letting me know Ali.

I haven't seen those studies comparing the absorption rates of the two sources. I'll definitely check them out. I'm keen to see the differences in blood or serum calcium levels after ingesting equal amounts of calcium.

I just never though the body would be able to absorb chalk that well. Mind you, I have heard that the calcium from milk isn't that well absorb either. Do you have any info on that? Furthermore, I know Dr. Walter Willett cites some research in his book, 'Eat, Drink and Be Healthy' that states that the countries that have the highest intakes of dairy foods also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis and vice versa. Have you seen any info on that?

Thanks for the correction and I look forward to checking out the studies.

Apologies everyone! Keep training hard!

Cheers,

Steve.
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby EvilWombatQueen » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:16 am

Yes, I've heard that dairy products aren't the best source of calcium when it comes to absorption, but I was always a bit leery of that because I'd always come across that claim on vegan websites, and they are more than a little bit biased! According to some of those sources, high protein diets cause calcium loss from bones, which could explain the link between high rates of dairy consumption and high rates of osteoporosis. I haven't found anything about that in peer-reviewed literature, though, so I remain skeptical.

Here's some stuff I found comparing vegetable sources of calcium to milk:
This paper states that calcium in kale is absorbed better than calcium in milk.
This paper states that calcium absorption from wheat products compares favourably with milk.
This paper, however, states that western diets lacking in dairy foods would find it difficult to meet recommended calcium requirements.


(Too many URLs for the post, so I have to break this into two posts. Sorry about that!)
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby EvilWombatQueen » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:19 am

(... and the rest of the post follows!)

This metastudy points out that osteoporosis is a multifactorial disorder where nutrition only forms part of the problem. The studies it looked at included calcium in both supplement form and dairy foods, and all reported positive effect on bone health (though the author points out that there were methodological problems with those studies).

According to this paper it doesn't appear that osteoporosis is a problem with absorbing calcium from dairy products, it's just that most people don't get enough calcium in the first place.

You could probably absorb calcium better from kale or broccoli but you'd have to eat an awful lot of them on a daily basis to meet your recommended daily intake! As a vegan who eats a hell of a lot of dark green leafy vegetables I'd be lucky to break even most days if I excluded fortified rice milk, and I take a calcium supplement just to be sure. Even when adding dairy products to the mix most people don't get enough calcium, so in my opinion at least it's more a question of quantity of calcium rather than quality of the source that's a problem in western diets.

There's also the issue of vitamin D which is needed for calcium absorption. I've heard that vitamin D deficiency is greater in the community than previously thought, so that may explain some of the problem with osteoporosis. I walk for between 40 minutes and an hour per day and have done so since I was a teenager so I'd get more sun than many other office workers, yet I was diagnosed as vitamin D deficient earlier this year which was a bit of a wake up call!

The book 'Eat, Drink and Be Healthy' sounds interesting. I might see if my local library has it. Thanks for starting this conversation, Steve! It's been really interesting researching this. In fact I'm going to look at changing my supplements to calcium citrate (costs permitting) because I didn't realise calcium carbonate created intestinal gas.
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby stevo1 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:22 pm

Hi Ali,

Thanks for links to those studies. I checked them all out and they are very interesting. It is simply amazing how much information is out there and you never stop learning!

My GF is also a vegan (except for chocolate) and eats predominantly raw foods. I support her in her nutritional endeavours even though I don't fully embrace that approach myself (I do have a small amount of animal protein in my diet but nowhere near the bodybuilding days). However, we do have a great vegan restaurant near our place in Perth and we go there regularly. Since I eat consistently throughout the day I have no problem at all with having regular vegan meals.

I agree with the Vit D and calcium supplementation and even magnesium as well to keep the correct balance between those two minerals. Plus, avoiding zinc at the same time because apparently it competes with calcium for absorption I believe. Adrian (biz partner) is a huge advocate of vitamin D in his practice. He is constantly amazed with the number of people he sees who are deficient in it. Even in a sunny place like Perth!

I wasn't aware of the intetinal gas issue caused by calcium carbonate either! Does this also mean it may result in an inflammatory response in the body, resulting in fluid retention and therefore, weight gain?

I wrote an article for our magazine, Focus On, several years ago and discussed how to lose 5 kilos in 2 weeks because I had a lot of success with clients in the past (and even family) by simply eliminating dairy and wheat products for that 2-week period.

Annie (GF) especially doesn't react well to gluten or dairy (even though she still has chocolate!) and when she can keep off it for a few days she feels great! Keeping her away from chocolate for more than a few days is a struggle though! However, we both now follow a system whereby neither of us has chocolate or red wine from Monday-Friday but then the weekends we do (the weekends include Friday nights as well!).

This approach keeps us on track and in reasonable shape.
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby EvilWombatQueen » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:13 pm

When calcium carbonate is added to hydrochloric acid (the main acid in the stomach) it forms carbon dioxide, which I assume creates the intestinal gas (science experiment on YouTube). And now I want a chemistry set!

That sounds like a good plan, avoiding chocolate and red wine on weekdays. I try to do that but the stressful days that seem to need a good red wine cure always occur on working days!

You can get vegan safe chocolate. Most dark chocolates are okay (just read the ingredients first!) and I find they have the added bonus of being richer so you don't feel like eating the whole block at once. There's also Sweet William chocolate, which you can find at most supermarkets in the health food aisle. The worst/best day of my life was when I found out that brand makes vegan-safe white chocolate. I have to avoid the local supermarket that stocks it now. :lol:

That's interesting about not taking calcium and zinc at the same time. I'll make sure to remember that! It makes you wonder how effective multivitamins are sometimes, though. The one I'm taking at the moment has magnesium and zinc, but also calcium citrate. Maybe they should release multivitamins in colour-coded blister packs so you can take several tablets at different times of the day rather than all at once!
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Re: Anyone out there following the CSIRO plan?

Postby stevo1 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Thanks for the info on the chocolate Ali!

I'll get Annie a little present for when she gets back (I've just got to make sure I don't eat it first!).

I know what you mean regarding the red wine... It's good in theoy but doesn't always work!

Cheers,

Steve.
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